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Old 04-21-2017, 09:35 AM   #41
3D Piper
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

I don't think we need the thought police here.

Anyone can make any comments they want. Sexes aside, drummers make fun of pipers, pipers make fun of drummers, pipers and pipe bands in general are made fun of by the general public, etc. If idiots make disparaging comments (for whatever reason), don't get mad and quit: prove them wrong by overcoming and succeeding.

Or, talk to the person making the comments. I recall taking my beginners (all young children) to a workshop. A drumming instructor had a 'potty mouth' and it scared one of my drummers (a girl) to where she did not want to go back. I went and talked to the instructor and he realized he was wrong and apologized and didn't do it anymore (at least around kids). In this instance, a friendly confrontation defused the situation and my student attended the rest of the lessons with the instructor.



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Old 04-21-2017, 03:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Well in response to this discussion. There is at least one study in which it seems that gender-specific qualities in music (including performance) are a product of biases on the part of the listener and not the performer.

Granted, this was seemingly using only western classical music. The research does acknowledge that there are emotional and cognitive differences between males and females (not a valuative statement). However, it makes me wonder what results of the research would be like using different idioms in typical bagpipe music (say airs, marches, and Piobaireachd).

This study certainly did not uncover any gender differences in performance by male or females.

The study can be found here:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3997045/

Charlie
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Old 04-22-2017, 07:45 AM   #43
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3D Piper View Post
I don't think we need the thought police here.
Man considers situation that benefits him and decides situation is not a problem. Yeah, shut it down, people.
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Old 04-22-2017, 05:59 PM   #44
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M Burke View Post
And the winning Quarterback in the superbowl...oh I forget her name... Anybody????

Paul
Yeah, OK. So, say there's a person in the next room who can bench press 300 pounds. Without looking in the room, I can say with great confidence that that person is a man.

In another room, someone just played a beautiful sprightly strathspey. Or a straightforward 2/4 march. Or a super-aggressive rendition of "Flame of Wrath." Without looking in the room, I couldn't tell whether the player was a man or a woman, and I don't think anyone else could, either.
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Old 04-24-2017, 05:19 PM   #45
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul M Burke View Post
And the winning Quarterback in the superbowl...oh I forget her name... Anybody????

Paul

No, she used to be an Olympic Decathalon Champion, Paul
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Nice to see some in the piping world have moved beyond the 1950s... others, not so much.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:47 AM   #47
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

A comment like "you play like a girl" I'd expect perhaps from an ignorant, drunk punter in a bar, but not a piping judge. It's 2017, not 1917.
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Old 05-25-2017, 07:19 PM   #48
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Default You play like a girl!

Wow...... the thread that keeps on giving, but I do agree that the judge's comments were either intentionally derogatory or made with significant ignorance.
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Old 05-31-2017, 03:07 PM   #49
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

It is not just the comments, but the unvoiced criticisms, big and small - the teacher who gives more time, praise and other preferential treatments (like the nicest band equipment and uniforms) to the boys, etc. Comments about the instrument not being as good as the boys' instrument, or giving inadequate advice about equipment, or simply not bothering to explain playing issues.
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Old 06-01-2017, 11:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: You play like a girl!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalumII View Post
I've had to delete the first response I wrote to this.

I teach the pipes, for a living. I teach men, women, boys, girls. There is no difference. Then they go out into the piping scene and they meet people like you and attitudes like this and I am sick to death of it. The little remarks. The silly little comments. You didn't really mean it. It was just banter. Women do NOT need your, or anyone else's, opinions on what they are and aren't capable of or how they perform.

Just don't do it. Just don't.

You know, I love the pipes and I love the music, but sometimes the people really depress me. It's not just you. You can hear this same nonsense spouted everywhere in the piping world. They don't tell you why they leave. They just get sick of the little put downs and the slightly creepy middle-aged married guys and they quietly hand their kit in and go while the rest of us just carry on laughing in the bar.

The piping scene needs to grow up.
Don't know who you are. But cheers to you. I was a female piper. Back in the early eighties when I was a kid.

This "comment" will likely disturb a few folk but right now, I could care less. It needs to be said...for -my- benefit and for others who may give a damn.

I started playing back in 1977 when I was a kid of 11. I loved it. Music, to me back then, was an escape and an addiction... I couldn't practise enough. I was Scots, in Canada, with an accent at an age when having an accent meant I didn't fit in.

I was told right of the bat that females didn't do so well in piping. They tended to get pregnant and have babies right around the time when they were getting half decent. I didn't listen and fortunately, neither did my instructor back then.

So, as we do, I progressed. Left the one band I was playing for a few years later for an "up and coming" band in the Toronto area. I won't name the band...it doesn't really matter.

My parents put a lot of effort into getting me to practises and I worked my arse of. But, I was female...by now at 13, I was almost showing it, too.

I was molested that year by the pipe major of that band. Over here in the UK right now, there is a lot of hype about footballers going through this type of thing with folks in their clubs. Its said "what a horrible thing" to have happened. And it is.

For the two years I played for this band, (I was 13 and 14 yrs of age) the 37 yr old pipe major groomed, harassed and propositioned me. When I finally left that band, I was convinced that I was evil, self esteem in the toilet etc...and all for what? My parents had no clue because I kept my mouth shut. I moved on to an upcoming grade 1 band ..yes, still a female, and I just kept moving on. Until I entered counselling after a suicide attempt in my early 20's.

Uncomfortable yet? Too bad.

So many in piping and other "sports" make dumb comments about females etc and we ate supposed to "let it go" because they're only joking. Right? A joke is a joke...let it go.

Except, doing this...turning a blind eye to blatant sexism, racism and complete unacceptable behaviour puts -everyone- and especially little kids growing up in this environment at risk. It prevents people acknowledging when something is so over the line because it muddies where that line is.

I eventually, flirted back with piping for a year. I was pregnant that year and entered just for the hell of it. Kilt easily hides the belly, so I played and changed into maternity clothes to collect my prizes. Felt good... until I saw my abuser there. Haven't played since.

Now, I lift. And for the guy who spoke about the person bench pressing 300 ..yes. that's likely a man. But what about the people bench pressing 150 or 200? You see...my experience with lifting and bodybuilding is that its about personal best and focus and self improvement. I bench press and leg press more than a few guys at my gym...and more than a few guys -and gals- lift more than me. But, how many reps are they doing? What are their goals? Why are they there?

Honestly, its time to cut the bullshit comments about women and men and start acknowledging that "yes, there maybe some differences....but these aren't across the board". Quit being jack asses and start being people.


To Calum...so glad you commented. You gave me hope and the courage to speak up. Keep an eye on your students...especially the kids. Noons should have to go through what I did just for the right to play music.

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