Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Music
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-19-2019, 05:56 AM   #1
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,432
Default Piper's Version Amazing Grace

I've wondered about this for over thirty years, why does the piper's version of Amazing Grace not match up with the hymn version? Piper's version goes LA D-strike F E D F, but hymn version goes LA D-strike F D F. Has it always been so?

Cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 02-19-2019, 06:25 PM   #2
Klondike Waldo
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Braintree MA USA
Posts: 8,291
Send a message via AIM to Klondike Waldo
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

1. You might well find different versions of the hymn tune in different hymnals.
2. The "Pipers' Version" probably refers to the way the Scots Dragoon Guards played it, after the way Judy Collins sang it.
3. The tune we know today, "NEW BRITAIN" is not the tune the hymn was originally set to. So, we have a tune many people associate with Scotland which is in fact an American tune with lyrics by an English clergyman set to it.
__________________
Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron
Klondike Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2019, 06:26 AM   #3
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,432
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Thanks for the explanation. My question goes back to the mid 1980s, I was only on the bagpipe for about two years and the lead snare asked me to play AG for his father's funeral. As I was a beginner, I refused payment. Imagine my shock when I show up at the church to find out I'm expected to play AG with the organist, no chance for rehearsal. OK, AG is pretty straightforward, or so I thought. I quickly realized that we were not playing the same notes in places. Afterwards I apologized to our lead snare, but he said I sounded fine, no problem. The minute I got home I got out my Methodist hymnal and quickly realized what had happened. I re-wrote AG to match the hymn version and ever since, if I'm to play with an organist, that is the version I use.

Cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 06:50 PM   #4
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 9,957
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Keep in mind that Amazing Grace is a hymn, a set of words, not a tune. There is no such tune as "Amazing Grace".

The hymn Amazing Grace has been sung to many tunes over the years, always has been, still is.

One of those tunes is NEW BRITAIN, going back IIRC to the early 19th century book Southern Harmony. (Tunes are traditionally spelt in all caps.)

The standard version of NEW BRITAIN that's appeared in hymnals for nearly 200 years, the one still usually sung, is different from Judy Collin's 1969 version. I don't know where Ms Collins got her tune.

The trouble is that the bandmaster of the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards learned the tune from the Judy Collins album, not one of the numerous American hymnals. So it's Ms Collins' version of the tune, played by the Pipes & Drums and Military Band of the RSDG that became a Top 40 Pop Chart hit in the early 1970s, and that pipers the world over copied.

It behooves pipers to know the standard version of NEW BRITAIN for church performances, as you discovered.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-26-2019, 07:55 PM   #5
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 9,957
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Here is Judy Collin's version of Amazing Grace (tune: NEW BRITAIN variant) that the Royal Scots Greys/Royal Scots Dragoon Guards copied and recorded for their 1972 album Farewell To The Greys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtteRD5bBNQ

Here is an early 19th century shape note version of Amazing Grace (tune: NEW BRITAIN) which is pretty much how nearly all hymnals have it; the tune is said to come from Columbian Harmony (1829)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXd-FyGMVto

BTW in hymnals NEW BRITAIN is usually either in G or in F. The Highland pipes render it in Eb which is rather low for choirs and congregations.

Amazing Grace can be, and is, sung to any tune with the same meter, for example KINGSFOLD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCBrdCK7u9c&t=61s

And as I always do, link to my favourite tune FIDUCIA (heck I'm from Appalachia of course I'm going to love this stuff)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmFKZmcGAW0
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte

Last edited by pancelticpiper; 02-26-2019 at 08:11 PM.
pancelticpiper is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 06:13 AM   #6
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,432
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Good information PCP, thanks. Yes, over the years I've been told by numerous organists that I am playing in Eb. Just learned something else new, that Fire Dept bands are playing AG uptempo and calling it "Cajun Grace". My band has been invited to play with a Fire Dept band on SPD and their pipe major called for "Cajun Grace", which was new to me.

Cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 09:01 AM   #7
CalumII
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London Town
Posts: 5,191
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDaOGBuwowc


Some bright young thing at the RCS could no doubt write a very interesting thesis on performance practice using this video.
CalumII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 09:23 AM   #8
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,432
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalumII View Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDaOGBuwowc


Some bright young thing at the RCS could no doubt write a very interesting thesis on performance practice using this video.
Audiences in the States are easily entertained - that is, they are there for the entertainment, not the appreciation of the music.

Cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 10:03 AM   #9
magsevenband
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 642
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Gael View Post
Good information PCP, thanks. Yes, over the years I've been told by numerous organists that I am playing in Eb. Just learned something else new, that Fire Dept bands are playing AG uptempo and calling it "Cajun Grace". My band has been invited to play with a Fire Dept band on SPD and their pipe major called for "Cajun Grace", which was new to me.

Cheers -

Wes
Perhaps, like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRaO...ature=youtu.be
__________________
"...I think that I will take two small bottles of Dubonnet and gin with me this morning, in case it is needed..."
Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother
magsevenband is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2019, 10:23 AM   #10
Patrick McLaurin
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 5,628
Default Re: Piper's Version Amazing Grace

I have long wondered the same.

I play the “hymnal” version solo and the “bagpipe” version with the band.
Patrick McLaurin is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55 PM.