Pipe bag - Livingstone pattern

[Leong]

I believe bags in the Livingstone "pattern" have drone holes that are cut about 1" forward of the normal position - is my understanding correct in this?

Can you take a normal bag (say, a small) and cut my own Livingstone holes - is there a template or instructions how one might go about doing this?

Any feedback on playability of such bags?

[Pppiper]

Originally Posted by Leong

I believe bags in the Livingstone "pattern" have drone holes that are cut about 1" forward of the normal position - is my understanding correct in this?

Can you take a normal bag (say, a small) and cut my own Livingstone holes - is there a template or instructions how one might go about doing this?

Any feedback on playability of such bags?

You are correct, that the "Livingston" pattern will purposefully have the drone holes cut closer to the blowpipe. As for playability, that will depend on you.

I used the Livingstone size for years, as I'm rather short and small, so the forward positioning I found to be quite helpful. However, it is a very small bag, so much so that I've been moving more toward a medium size ... this makes steady blowing much easier. But, I miss the feeling of the Livingstone bag, I was quite happy with it, and I still use it with my stage show set of pipes (have a few different sets which I use regularly).

Don't know about template/instructions, though I'm sure someone could probably take measurements for you, if that helps. I'd be happy to try to do this on mine if you'd like.

My understanding has been that the ideal spacing from bass stock to blowpipe would be the width of your hand, i.e., outside of index knuckle to outside of pinky knuckle. That's what the Livingstone size is for me, and was why I started using it.

Hope some of this helps.

Cheers,
~Nate

[acadianpiper]

My teacher first made a "Livingstone" bag for me back in 1959. He took a 10" bag, marked the usual drone and blowpipe stock positions and then measured an inch forward from each drone position and a half-inch forward from the blowpipe position to mark the "Livingstone" positions. (It wasn't called a Livingstone bag back then, because no one had heard of Bill in 1959.) I continued doing this with all the hide and sheepskin bags I've played over the decades since. It's no big deal to do it. This method gave me a comfortable bag. I played these bags in solo comps and in a grade 1 band.

[el gaitero]

Another very popular bag available for the past ??. 8+years?? ..has, at least, the blowstick stock moved forward about an inch.
In part ,this helps alleviate some left forearm contact on the bag for a somewhat better ergonomic fit.
Seemed a good concept overall but I noted in playing it that I had to scrunch my hands back a bit ‘awkwardly’ closer towards me versus playing a ‘standard’ cut bag during the preceding decades.

[Leong]

Thanks for all the info, guys. I think I will be seriously considering giving this a whirl - anything to relieve pressure on the forearm should be a good thing.

Nate, thanks for the offer of measurements etc. I'll see if I will be in need of them if I go down this route.

"the blowstick stock moved forward about an inch" - surely, the drone stocks moved as well, no? Otherwise, how does the relief on the forearm come about?

[el gaitero]

The Bannatyne WMC write up specifically mentions,,iirc,,,offering less pressure on the forearm...in part due to its ergonomic cut.
It’s a very nice bag as are the Bannatyne bags overall. Moreover ...if it’s ok for its world class piper designer...

[pancelticpiper]

Seems to me can create two scenarios:

1) if the bag remains in the same position under the arm, the chanter will be in the same position vis-à-vis the player as before, but the drones will be more sloped on the shoulder, or

2) if the bag is moved back an inch under the arm, so that the drones have the same slope as before, the chanter will now be one inch closer to the player.

Which is the purpose of the Livingstone pattern?

[Leong]

Originally Posted by pancelticpiper

Which is the purpose of the Livingstone pattern?

My understanding is that by bringing the drone stocks forward, the left forearm (if you a rightie) has less bag to go around and therefore has less pressure applied to it. Not having tried one, I only have hearsay appreciation of it. But as you say, the chanter will probably be closer to the piper as a result (likely good or bad depending on the piper's stature and/or reach).

So, scenario #2, but I wait to be corrected on this.

[pancelticpiper]

Originally Posted by Leong

… the arm has less bag to go around and therefore has less pressure applied to it...

Ah, I see. Yes that would be the case if the bag got smaller in that inch between the normal drone spot and the further-forward drone spot.

Seems like using a smaller-diameter bag would be a different way of reducing the diameter of the bag at the point of the bag-arm, and not affecting the placement of the drones, blowpipe, or chanter.

[SRHILL]

HI,


I went through this same situation a couple of years ago. At the time, Ross made the ESS bag. This is a bag like the Livingstone with the drones forward but cut using the extended small bag size. In result you got a slightly bigger bag and I think it I liked it better. You might want to see if your bagpipe supplier can still order this for you.


Thanks!


Steve