Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Beer Tent
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-17-2019, 10:23 AM   #1
William McKenzie
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 809
Default Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

Forgive me if this is a rehash but in watching this year's Worlds I caught Bob Worrall mentioning on his sign off to the effect that Glasgow will probably always be the heart of the Worlds and that it's hard to imagine it held anywhere else but perhaps this could change [to someplace else in the world].

This made me think about how the G1 lineup this year for example are 2 Northern Irish, 1 Irish, 1 New Zealand, 2 Canadian, and 9 Scottish. Part of this is qualifying and ability no doubt but a much larger component has to be expense and time opportunity cost from traveling farther distances. There are more country diversity in the lower grades to be fair.

Still it begs the question, if Scotland owns the piping culture, are costs shared across bands within the RSPBA structure so that those who qualify in say Australia or New Zealand for example can have travel costs covered to bring diverse competition in and make it accessible to all? Alternatively it seems like the Worlds should rotate countries potentially?

Along the same lines are RSPBA judges always Scottish to maintain their ownership of the culture or are adjudicators from other countries/piping cultures judging at the Worlds to truly be "worlds"?

I ask all this with curiosity btw, not with any ill sentiment.
__________________
Will
William McKenzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 08-17-2019, 04:40 PM   #2
McCombe
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 47
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

At this point the Worlds will always be in Glasgow/Scotland because that’s where all the bands are. If they told everyone one year “the Worlds are in Toronto this year” the UK bands would scoff and tell them they’ll make their own Worlds. They have no idea the type of fundraising overseas bands have to do, and fair enough, I doubt they’d like to start. The RSPBA has no incentive for overseas bands to come (financial compensation), we just do it out of love for the sport. It’s not fair, but there’s no reason for them to change.

Though there are actually judges from outside Scotland on the RSPBA panel, so they don’t block worthy judges. Bob Worrall, Ken Ellet and Terry Lee are all certified.
McCombe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2019, 04:38 AM   #3
Tom MacKenzie
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,444
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCombe View Post
Bob Worrall, Ken Ellet and Terry Lee are all certified.

Ken Eller (sp)

Greg Dinsdale drumming
__________________
tom.mackenzie@sympatico.ca
Tom MacKenzie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 05:40 PM   #4
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,013
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

The simple fact is that Scotland and Northern Ireland, taken together, have the greatest concentration of bands (most bands in the smallest area) of anywhere on earth.

Putting the Worlds anywhere else wouldn't make logistical sense.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-19-2019, 07:11 PM   #5
Andrew Lenz
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Santa Cruz, California
Posts: 10,492
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

It's also Great HIGHLAND Bagpipes. That's Scottish Highlands, the home of the instrument. It's natural that the Worlds would be there. Granted, if they wanted it to be more of an "international thing", like the Olympics, it would rotate. But also keep in mind, it's to the financial benefit of the RSPBA to have the event in Scotland.

Andrew
__________________
Andrew T. Lenz, Jr.
www.BagpipeJourney.com - Reference for Bagpipers

"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." ---Mark Twain
Andrew Lenz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 04:59 AM   #6
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,013
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

I looked at the available online numbers quickly and came up with:

RSPBA Scotland branches and RSPBANI taken together: 257 competition bands.

Land area of Scotland and Northern Ireland: 36,350 square miles.

To get a sense of scale, in Australia that would be the second-smallest State, larger only than Tasmania.

Among Canadian States that would rank 11th in size, larger only than New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and PEI.

Among States in the USA that would rank 38th, between Virginia and Indiana.

Tasmania, New Brunswick, and Indiana taken together (three times the size of NI and Scotland taken together) don't have anywhere near 257 bands, I can assure you.

As far as logistics go, with Eire, Northern Ireland, Scotland, and England taken together you have over 300 competition bands within easy travel distance of Glasgow. It might seem like quite a drive, say, from London to Glasgow but that trip is 100 miles shorter than the drive halfway up California, from San Diego to San Francisco. The trip from Belfast to Glasgow is only a third of that.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte

Last edited by pancelticpiper; 08-20-2019 at 05:16 AM.
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-20-2019, 05:14 AM   #7
el gaitero
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Estados Unidos
Posts: 6,480
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

[QUOTE=Andrew Lenz;1339664


", it's to the financial benefit of the RSPBA to have the event in Scotland.

Andrew[/QUOTE]

Various accounts read here and other sites imply there doesn’t seem a keen interest to annually improve the venue and associated amenities and offerings Rather, a decline in attendance and otherwise.

It’s nice to sit in the comfort of my abode ,robe and slippers, watching the livestream and mull the commentary.
el gaitero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 03:09 PM   #8
Zummerhaus
Forum Member - Shy or Quiet
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 24
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

It's all opinion but for me the RSPBA are slowly getting into the 21st century...


+ Structured Learning books, tunes, DM manual and videos freely available
+ Novice/Juvenile funding available via the RSPBA to encourage uptake
+ SLOWLY taking on board feedback,

- No cap on player numbers = bands disbanding, big bands hoarding players
- Fear of reprisals/politics ala Jim Kilpatrick speaking out, cannot compete
- Judging discrepancies, should we discount the mark which is the outlier?


To me, the cons mean that there's a huge time/financial cost for little reward for most bandsmen - any good Pipe Major or Leading Tip can identify where they went wrong in a performance, where the band section is weak generally, and how well it works together.

There are accusations of corrupt judges favouring certain bands, certain chanters getting you into the prize list (regardless of performance), huge swings in placings (our premier competition, the worlds, grade 2 final for example). To question it is to paint a target on your back.

It's all subjective though. Music. Taste. Tone. Balance. Phrasing. How are bands measured? What's the criteria it's judged against?

THE RSPBA DON'T NEED OR WANT TO MOVE THE WORLDS.

There's no benefit as explained by someone before when it comes to pure bands numbers, so my point is more, do we trust the RSPBA to lead the way for the benefit of the greater piping and drumming community? Can they learn from overseas associations? Should they?
Zummerhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 04:22 PM   #9
el gaitero
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Estados Unidos
Posts: 6,480
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zummerhaus View Post

It's all opinion but for me the RSPBA are slowly getting into the 21st century...


+ Structured Learning books, tunes, DM manual and videos freely available

?
I looked but did not find the DM manual....can you pls provide guidance to find... cheers
el gaitero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2019, 04:31 PM   #10
Zummerhaus
Forum Member - Shy or Quiet
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 24
Default Re: Logistics and Politics of the RSPBA

Under the forms heading: https://rspba.org/documents/DM_Manual.pdf

So mark that as another con to the RSPBA - poor filing!
Zummerhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:22 PM.