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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 05-12-2020, 01:53 PM   #1
Joseph Diodato
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Default Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

My own internal musings and a post on another web forum got me thinking:

What do we know or can reasonably conjecture about the extent to which respiratory particles are aerosolized and pushed out of the drones and into the air while we play? Should we expect to see that bands will exercise a great deal more caution then usual over the coming weeks and months as life begins to inch back towards that state of normal from so long ago?

It's certainly an interesting thought, I think. Perhaps the more scientifically-minded amongst us could offer some more insight?

Cheers,
Joe

Edit: Missed an "and" in the title. My apologies.
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Last edited by Joseph Diodato; 05-12-2020 at 01:54 PM. Reason: Title typo.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:33 PM   #2
olypiper
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

There are a lot of variables. Moisture control systems, from simple water traps to more elaborate desiccant systems on the the blowpipe or on the drones. Tone enhancers, stock drying systems. The simple answer is yes, moisture can get out, but to what extent is the more elusive long answer. Also, what type of bag, what type if reeds, all these things may have an effect.

Great question. I don't really have a quantification for an answer.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:37 PM   #3
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

While I havenít seen data, my hypothesis is that respiratory droplets could exit the drones.

My reasoning, which may be flawed is that if I can detect moisture in my drone tops after playing, then that moisture must have come from my bag, which was moistened by my breath.
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Old 05-12-2020, 05:42 PM   #4
el gaitero
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Diodato View Post


What do we know or can reasonably conjecture about the extent to which respiratory particles are aerosolized and pushed out of the drones and into the air while we play?

.
I speculate that overall the volume is not significantly more or less than from when the first bag was tied onto a set of drones..albeit 2 or more might impact the split hair.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:50 PM   #5
Jim Fogelman
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

This study, while not specifically about bagpipes, says that wind instruments arenít as contagious as previously thought.
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Old 05-12-2020, 08:50 PM   #6
Pip01
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?





Greetings to All,

Perhaps... just perhaps... this possible viral difficulty...
might best be obviated... by throwing a couple o' three
pieces of copper into the bag... and of what ever the
bag's modern or old style material it may be.

Times of Old... many of our forebears... would throw
in some copper pence... to forestall bacterial growth.

(I know. Pennies, pence... no longer have that much
copper in them anymore... but a quick trip to a hardware
store... and the getting of some small, rounded (i.e., non
sharp-edged) copper fittings... should prove successful. :)

Not being as well versed in the memory of viral capsid
structure as I should be... (where did I put that textbook?)...
I would hazard that "the coppers" would greatly assist in
the morbidity cycle of any virus.

Just some thoughts...

Regards, and Wishing Safety... and Good Health... to All,

Pip01






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Old 05-15-2020, 08:28 AM   #7
piper Q
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

I gave the subject some less than serious consideration. Thus using conjecture, and assumptions to the utmost and a slight bit of unaccepted Fringe Science in a similar vein as Essential Oils are pushed as a curative for all modern ills... I can honest assert... I don't know.

There are quite a few variables in place and in play. I don't use a canister system, but I do use tone enhancers. So the amount of by-pass and air flow can not be readily determined compared to the next piper.

Additionally we don't know the exit velocity of the exhaled and pushed air is from the drones and chanter are for the various pipers. So without controlled studies across the board, we can only make assumptions and guesses.

As for condensation on the drones interiors or tops, the materials used can make quite a bit of difference. Delrin or Polypenco Plastic versus African Black Wood versus other hard woods, and etc... Toss in external air temperature, humidity conditions, the speed of an unladen European Swallow as opposed to an African Swallow... and there are too many variables to even make a Scientifically Meaningless Wild Ass Guess of what it may be from one piper to another what moisture load may be pushed from the pipes.

Whilst I could tie a gauze over the chanter bell and reliefs, as well each drone top in the hopes of slowing particle ejection, That may impact sound and tonal quality as well. In addition to looking silly.

Perhaps just maintaining the nominal 2 meter distance from others within circle is OK, maybe not. Very often if we are performing solo the volume of the pipes may be the tool that minds others to keep a safe distance back if only for hearing conservation, if nothing else.

Thus with out further discussion and lacking the proper scientific methodologies required... Who knows? Just remember to was your hands and sanitize the surfaces with a gentle cleanser if the Pipers are ABW with a natural hide bag.
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Old 05-15-2020, 12:49 PM   #8
CalumII
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

Quote:
Originally Posted by piper Q View Post
I don't know.

Very much this.



My understanding is coronavirus is transmitted only in "heavy" droplets that essentially have to be projected from one person to another, and that they don't hang around in the air. On this basis, it would seem logical that they would end up landing in the bag and going no further, because the "wind" through the bag is pretty low in terms of volume of air divided by cross-section.



But that's conjecture, and I sure as heck wouldn't put money on it.
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Old 05-17-2020, 02:00 PM   #9
Pip01
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?





Greetings to All,

Well... and Hmmm... If... if... memory serves... our
breath... and filled with what ever moisture we give
to it... wet blower... dry blower... or medium blower...
goes into the bag... and then up through the stocks...
then through the reeds... chanter and drones... and
then... and mainly... out through the drones... and then...
and presumably... back out into the air from which we...
had first taken it... and still... it is but with our moisturized
breath... and with those particles of what ever was and
is... inside of us.

As to which lump of microns goes where... from the
blowpipe... to the chanter and the drones... and then
to the outside... well... short of the Archangel's assistance...
that's hard to say... but... we may depend that what goes
into our breath... comes out... of our chanter and drones.

And so... back to the Old Saw... but now with New Teeth*:
"An ounce of prevention... is worth a pound of cure."

Wishing Safety, Vigilance & Happy Piping to All,

Pip01


*That line isn't mine, it belongs to Ambrose Bierce. (1842-1914)


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Old 05-22-2020, 09:11 PM   #10
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Default Re: Respiratory droplets aerosolized pushed out the drones?

That ! Cracked me up....
Thanks...
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