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Do It Yourself (DIY) Making and repairing of instruments, accessories, and more.

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Old 12-31-2009, 09:09 AM   #1
Bushido
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Default How to remove ferrule from hell??

I want to replate my ferrules and caps as the old plating is coming off, but in order to do so I need to remove them from the pipes. I've gotten nearly all of them off by heating them with a small torch and then twisting gently, but when I tried the same method on the bass drone top part ferrule it simply wouldn't budge. All of the other parts came off fairly easy when heated, but the bass top ferrule doesn't show any sign of even coming slightly loose. And I've heated it pretty good, so it's not lack of heat that's the problem. It just won't move. So, anyone got any tips for removing this bugger without damaging the pipes?
I will not scrap any parts as I'm trying to restore a vintage set, I just want to get the ferrule off so that I can replate it and then remount it to the pipes.
Cheers!
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Old 12-31-2009, 10:48 AM   #2
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushido View Post
I want to replate my ferrules and caps as the old plating is coming off, but in order to do so I need to remove them from the pipes. I've gotten nearly all of them off by heating them with a small torch and then twisting gently, but when I tried the same method on the bass drone top part ferrule it simply wouldn't budge. All of the other parts came off fairly easy when heated, but the bass top ferrule doesn't show any sign of even coming slightly loose. And I've heated it pretty good, so it's not lack of heat that's the problem. It just won't move. So, anyone got any tips for removing this bugger without damaging the pipes?
I will not scrap any parts as I'm trying to restore a vintage set, I just want to get the ferrule off so that I can replate it and then remount it to the pipes.
Cheers!
hmmm. wonder if you might get a 1/4" dowel up thru the bore and tap it off from the inside? steam bend the dowel a bit so it offsets to under the cap/not centered on the hole. there might be a thin disc of abw covering the bell as a stiffner under the metal cap; if so, and it was glued in place and then the cap glued to it...this might be cause of the non-removal issue.
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Old 12-31-2009, 10:58 AM   #3
el gaitero
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushido View Post
I want to replate my ferrules and caps as the old plating is coming off, but in order to do so I need to remove them from the pipes. I've gotten nearly all of them off by heating them with a small torch and then twisting gently, but when I tried the same method on the bass drone top part ferrule it simply wouldn't budge. All of the other parts came off fairly easy when heated, but the bass top ferrule doesn't show any sign of even coming slightly loose. And I've heated it pretty good, so it's not lack of heat that's the problem. It just won't move. So, anyone got any tips for removing this bugger without damaging the pipes?
I will not scrap any parts as I'm trying to restore a vintage set, I just want to get the ferrule off so that I can replate it and then remount it to the pipes.
Cheers!
btw...as long as u r going thru the effort and expense ( a $ spend level already agreed to commit) y not spend not really too much more ( the 'real' overage amount you would then be committing to) for new plain silver replacements? ( check out e.g. Bagpipe Silver.com or David Marshall.
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Old 12-31-2009, 01:33 PM   #4
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushido View Post
I want to replate my ferrules and caps as the old plating is coming off, but in order to do so I need to remove them from the pipes. I've gotten nearly all of them off by heating them with a small torch and then twisting gently, but when I tried the same method on the bass drone top part ferrule it simply wouldn't budge. All of the other parts came off fairly easy when heated, but the bass top ferrule doesn't show any sign of even coming slightly loose. And I've heated it pretty good, so it's not lack of heat that's the problem. It just won't move. So, anyone got any tips for removing this bugger without damaging the pipes?
I will not scrap any parts as I'm trying to restore a vintage set, I just want to get the ferrule off so that I can replate it and then remount it to the pipes.
Cheers!
If it's truly the ferrule (not the drone ring cap) that's the problem,
I'd speculate that it might have loosened in the past, and was
remounted with a different adhesive than the others.

Boiling the ferrule end in water would loosen some glues that
might not respond to direct heat. It's also the traditional means
of removing mounts, startling as that seems. I'd oil the inside
and outside before trying it, but a long immersion shouldn't be
needed.

If someone used something like super glue, that's trouble...
sometimes application of extreme cold (dry ice?) works,
but I'd want to hear from others, and try that only as a last
resort on a ferrule. (Last week I 'unjoined' a piece of steel
and maple that had been SG'd, by leaving the piece in the
freezer for an hour, and then striking the steel lightly with
a hammer. How to approach a ferrule for that last step
would take some imagination.)

If it's the bass ring cap and bushing (your description didn't sound
like that, to me) the problem could be the same (reattached
in the past with a different method.) I once was faced with
removing metal ring caps that were actually PINNED! The pins
had to be carefully drilled out, a real PITA.
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Old 12-31-2009, 04:05 PM   #5
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Thanks for the tips guys!
And yes, It's a ferrule I'm having trouble with. Sorry for being unclear.

Don't really want to replace any parts as the pipes are antique and I'm trying to restore them to their original shape, but thanks for the idea. Also, shouldn't new silver parts be more expensive than just asking someone to replate the existing parts for me? To me it sounds like there should be quite a big difference in price...

Is there any big risk to the wood with the boiling method? Perhaps I should mention that the tuning chamber of the very same piece is brass lined... Perhaps that would be a good thing if I decide to boil it off? Less direct contact between water and wood, and the little water that might find its way in could easily be wiped off... On the other hand, water under the brass lining would probably be bad... Thoughts on this?

About the pinned ferrule, I can find no evidence of the piece being pinned on, but the brass lining is pinned in place... Perhaps the pin goes all the way through? If so, how do I drill the pin out from inside the tuning chamber??
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Old 12-31-2009, 06:35 PM   #6
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bushido View Post
Thanks for the tips guys!
And yes, It's a ferrule I'm having trouble with. Sorry for being unclear.

Don't really want to replace any parts as the pipes are antique and I'm trying to restore them to their original shape, but thanks for the idea. Also, shouldn't new silver parts be more expensive than just asking someone to replate the existing parts for me? To me it sounds like there should be quite a big difference in price...

Is there any big risk to the wood with the boiling method? Perhaps I should mention that the tuning chamber of the very same piece is brass lined... Perhaps that would be a good thing if I decide to boil it off? Less direct contact between water and wood, and the little water that might find its way in could easily be wiped off... On the other hand, water under the brass lining would probably be bad... Thoughts on this?

About the pinned ferrule, I can find no evidence of the piece being pinned on, but the brass lining is pinned in place... Perhaps the pin goes all the way through? If so, how do I drill the pin out from inside the tuning chamber??
I'd surely get a price quote for re-plating before
making the decision. A "good" re-plating is a also
a good bit of work.

I can't speak to the question of water interacting with
your brass lining... if this is a cupped ferrule, there
might be some chance of water being retained for
a while, if the ferrule fails to come loose, but it shouldn't
do much. (It's time for the folks who've restored
antique, lined drones to pipe up.)

As to your last statement, about the lining being pinned,
I wonder if that might be part of the problem? If the
pin extends through (is that likely?) that could be binding
against the inside of the ferrule.

It's going to be frustrating, but I think your project
would be best put on 'hold' until you have a clearer
idea of your options and likely costs.
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Old 01-01-2010, 05:12 AM   #7
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Goid points and thoughts, I appreciate it.

I think I'll follow your advice and wait for a bit.

Cheers mate!
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Old 01-01-2010, 08:27 AM   #8
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Just had a thought... Some of the copper is really shiny and looks very nice (at least that's what I think), so perhaps what I could do is to polish all of the old silverplating off an leave it at a polished copper finish? Anyone got any pics of sets of pipes finished in polished copper? Has it been done before? Does it look good? Would it be a cheapskate method? Thoughts would be very much appreciated!
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:04 AM   #9
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

You can take the pieces you have off to a custom silver plater and get a quote to re-do them. I'd be surprised if the re-plating was not competitive with new silver parts. The amount of labor to re-manufacture the bits is large. the cost of maintaining the equipment, chemicals etc is prohibitive for the plating company. The amount of repair labor goes up with each dent and ding (if you want them out of the finished product. The copper you see is a fairly thick "base coat" under nickel, or silver and nickel, coats. It's possible that you will be able to remove the outer coat(s) with manual polishing but more likely that you'll go through the copper to the base metal as you polish the bits. The best of luck though, build something you'll be proud of.
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:16 AM   #10
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Default Re: How to remove ferrule from hell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by zarb View Post
You can take the pieces you have off to a custom silver plater and get a quote to re-do them. I'd be surprised if the re-plating was not competitive with new silver parts. The amount of labor to re-manufacture the bits is large. the cost of maintaining the equipment, chemicals etc is prohibitive for the plating company. The amount of repair labor goes up with each dent and ding (if you want them out of the finished product. The copper you see is a fairly thick "base coat" under nickel, or silver and nickel, coats. It's possible that you will be able to remove the outer coat(s) with manual polishing but more likely that you'll go through the copper to the base metal as you polish the bits. The best of luck though, build something you'll be proud of.
I see... Did not know that. Always assumed that plating wold cost pennies compared to solid sterling silver due to the costs and amounts of material being so very different... But perhaps it will come down to "pennies" if I do moist of the prep work myself? I'm good at polishing stuff.
And there's no risk of going through the copper layer as these ferrules and caps are solid copper.
Thanks mate, I will
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