Lincolnshire Bagpipes??

[james moran]

I saw this article the other day:

"Lincolnshire famed for its sausages, flat landscape, Cathedral and... bagpipes?"


True, it's 'flat', apart from the aptly named 'Steep Hill' in the centre of the City, not sure about the Sausages as I don't eat meat, but Bagpipes...?


I once heard there was a Lancashire Bagpipe & a Leicestershire Bagpipe yet never heard of one from the lowlands of Lincolnshire !


...anyone??

[MatthewVanitas]

They are mentioned in Shakespeare and some other writings, so they have a brief mention here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_bagpipes


Though now that a reputable authority has published an article on the Lincolnshire pipes, I'll go add a little more info and a footnote to the Wikipedia article.


Note that there's a little more mention of Lancashire coverage, which seemed to get a little more mention in both literature and later anthropological works.

[MatthewVanitas]

Well, now you've done it. I felt obligated to go produce a fully-footnoted Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_bagpipes

Now I just need to contact the Trust that commissioned the reproduction and get a good photo.

[Klondike Waldo]

Other than the name, what makes these "Lincolnshire" bagpipes different from the English Great Bagpipes that Julian Goodacre has been making for years?

[MatthewVanitas]

Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo

Other than the name, what makes these "Lincolnshire" bagpipes different from the English Great Bagpipes that Julian Goodacre has been making for years?

Legitimate question, and pretty dang hard to answer since we don't have any surviving examples, some random and not-terribly-detailed textual references, and a mere handful of artist's renderings which may have very little accuracy.

Off the top of my very amateur head, and squinting at the pics in the article, it seems pretty close in terms of being "a rather large conical-chantered single-drone bagpipe". That said, there are plenty of pipes meeting that vague description that get counted as separate piping traditions, so at a certain point you end up deciding whether minor differences in tuning and larger differences in playing merit being considered a separate instrument or no. If not, you end up arguing that 90% of Spain/Portugal, 80% of France, 80% of the Germanic countries, most of pre-modern England south of Northumberland, and the northern fringes of Italy all basically have "the same pipe", in that they have what some call the "Atlantic pipe": conical chanter, double reeds.


For Wikipedia purposes, and partially just lacking any clearer information, I've been making individual articles for the various English, Spanish, and French articles. Reckoning that, even if there are some physical similarities, there are at least relatively distinct traditions around said pipes.

[Ian Lawther]

This set of pipes must be 15 or more years old as John Addison died some time before I came to the US if I remember correctly.

Like many medieval reconstructions they are based on church carvings et and as such they rely on a stone mason having enough knowledge of bagpipes to make an accurate depiction. You just need to look at the many illustrations of the current highland pipes which are wildly inaccurate, even though the artist could easily get a photo or actual pipes to copy, to see that the source material is dodgy at best.........

Ian

[paul roberts]

John's recreation appears to be a typical "North European Great Pipe" and little different from the type of generic great pipe found all over Britain in the medieval and early modern period. The point about the Lincolnshire bagpipe is that it probably wasn't like this, which is why contemporaries gave it a special identity. This is what I wrote on the subject in “the other forum” a few months ago….

“ There are several references to "Lincolnshire bagpipe" in 16th and 17th century sources. As bagpipes were still widely played throughout England at this time and were not usually given any specific regional identity, it does seem reasonable to assume there was some sort of special bagpipe associated with the Lincolnshire region. The best clue as to its nature comes from Thomas Fuller in 1622, who writes "Lincolnshire bagpipes: I behold these as most ancient, because a very simple sort of music, being little more than the oaten pipe improved with a bag" - this seems to suggest some sort of primitive smallpipe, perhaps similar to those formerly found across the North Sea in the Baltic and Scandinavia.

IIRC one of the references in Shakepeare describes the Lincolnshire bagpipe as buzzing like a bee, which seems to tie in - one of the two German smallpipes described by Praetorious in 1619 was called the Hummelchen or "bumblebee".

The last known Lincolnshire piper was John Hunsley of Manton, who died in 1851. Unfortunately, nothing is known about his actual instrument, though clearly some sort of smallpipe seems likely. Interestingly, just a few miles north and also on the east coast, one the last known Yorkshire pipers was playing around the Goathland/Whitby area circa 1914, and he did play "Northumbrian" smallpipes. In fact there does seem to be an association between the east coast of Britain and smallpipes, probably reflecting longstanding Scandinavian/Baltic links.

Anyway, I doubt if you coud reconstruct the Lincolnshire bagpipe as such, given the lack of detailed description or pictures.

Swedish and Baltic smallpipes are well described and illustrated in Baines "Bagpipes" if you can find a copy.”

[MatthewVanitas]

Originally Posted by paul roberts

John's recreation appears to be a typical "North European Great Pipe" and little different from the type of generic great pipe found all over Britain in the medieval and early modern period. The point about the Lincolnshire bagpipe is that it probably wasn't like this, which is why contemporaries gave it a special identity. This is what I wrote on the subject in “the other forum” a few months ago….

I fully grant that English pipes (and Cornish, and Welsh), are a pretty disputed issue. I've gone ahead and put links to Merryweather's "Regional Bagpipes: History or Bunk?" in all the English bagpipe articles to showcase the counterargument.

That said, it does definitely seem that writers 1500-1700 or so not only associated bagpipes with certain areas of England, but went out of their way to specify "an X county bagpipe". It doesn't necessarily mean that there was a huge difference, but it does hint at at least some association of bagpipes having a regional flavour.

“ There are several references to "Lincolnshire bagpipe" in 16th and 17th century sources. As bagpipes were still widely played throughout England at this time and were not usually given any specific regional identity, it does seem reasonable to assume there was some sort of special bagpipe associated with the Lincolnshire region. The best clue as to its nature comes from Thomas Fuller in 1622, who writes "Lincolnshire bagpipes: I behold these as most ancient, because a very simple sort of music, being little more than the oaten pipe improved with a bag" - this seems to suggest some sort of primitive smallpipe, perhaps similar to those formerly found across the North Sea in the Baltic and Scandinavia.

I've heard various folks speculate at, but have yet to see any clear evidence, for ties between Scandinavian and English pipes. McGill up in Seattle did point out some fascinating case study of a Scandinavian town that historically wears plaid do to an exchange of marriageable young men back in the 1700s or so, so people did get out and about more than we credit, but I don't know of any specific evidence so far as pipes. The modern Scandinavian pipes are quite distinctive in terms of the single reed chanter.

Interestingly, just a few miles north and also on the east coast, one the last known Yorkshire pipers was playing around the Goathland/Whitby area circa 1914, and he did play "Northumbrian" smallpipes. In fact there does seem to be an association between the east coast of Britain and smallpipes, probably reflecting longstanding Scandinavian/Baltic links.

Do you have the name of, and/or any published sources regarding the last Yorkshire piper? I started an extremely minimal article on the Yorkshire pipes, but they get only a few passing mentions of having a tradition, and again nothing definite to distinguish a generic "from Brittany to Portugal" conical-bore double-chanter pipe from any specific regional variety.

On a minor sidenote, Worcestershire pops up in a very popular rhyme, again making one wonder exactly how they came by their reputation:

"Western men for gambols ; Middlesex men for tricks above ground; Essex men for the Hay; Lancashire for Hornpipes; Worcestershire for bagpipes"

Anyway, I doubt if you coud reconstruct the Lincolnshire bagpipe as such, given the lack of detailed description or pictures.

Granted, but lacking further scholarship the Addison set is at least notable in terms of attempted revivals, and I contacted the historical society and they said they could pass me some pics for the Public Domain for Wikipedia. Again, if any scholarship says that the Great Pipes-style isn't accurate, I'm happy to quote that, but in the meantime the only published sources we have say "Addison tried to replicated based on carvings", so I can present that, Merryweather's doubts, and let folks puzzle on it.

Swedish and Baltic smallpipes are well described and illustrated in Baines "Bagpipes" if you can find a copy.”

...or, I can just look on my dresser, where I have a D/G bellows-blown Swedish sackpipa and an E/A mouthblown sackpipa sitting. And I am generally familiar with the Estonian torupill and the Finnish sakkpilli (both generally similar to the sackpipa), but once you get as far south as Lithuania you get back into more Slavic pipes (being that Lithuania and Belorus had historical ties).

[paul roberts]

Fuller’s description seems to me to be unambiguous. That doesn’t mean he was right, but there is no doubt about what he is saying. The “oaten pipe” is a homemade “whistle” - or if you like a cylindrically bored chanter - made from materials like cereal stalks, ragwort, elder, rushes. It was common and widespread in his time, as indeed it was into the 20th century as a school kids' toy. You bore out the pith, burn the holes, and split the end to make a simple reed. Or you make a separate reed from, say, a piece of barley stalk.

Add a bag and you have a simple bagpipe. Such bagpipes have certainly been played in recent times in North Africa and India, and its only a small step to producing a more solid and refined instrument like the hornpipe or the chanters on the many European small pipes.

At what stage of evolution the Lincolnshire bagpipe was at we can’t say, but Fuller’s comment seems to suggest it was at the simpler end - more like the Madras bagpipe illustrated by Baines or the Baltic small pipes, than the NSP or the musette.

It isn’t really true that 16th-17th century sources refer to many different “county” bagpipes in England. They frequently refer to bagpipes - or to pipes and pipers in contexts that strongly suggest a bagpipe - and these references can be found from every corner of the country. But the only distinction they seem to regularly draw is between “great” or “loud” pipes and “soft” or “small” pipes.

It’s true that during the 17th century an increasing number of references also imply various counties were now seen as particular strongholds of piping, but that‘s not the same as having a highly distinctive regional form of pipe.

There are however a series of references which do seem to imply that educated observers recognized three distinctive regional bagpipes, and these are frequent enough to be taken seriously - the Lincolnshire, Lancashire and Scotch bagpipe.

The “Lancashire Bagpipe” (refs from about 1640-1710) may have been a flat pitch overblowing bagpipe something like a Swayne low D Border pipe, and ancestral to the Pastoral/Union instrument: there is a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing in that direction, but I’m still searching for the killer reference confirming my supposition. The “Scotch bagpipe” (late 17th century) was probably a sophisticated smallpipe ancestral to the NSP. Interestingly the refs to the Lincolnshire pipe much predate these, starting in the late 16th century.

The “last of the Yorkshire pipers” (Goathland c.1920) is mentioned in “Piping in Yorkshire” by RA Schofield in Chanter winter 1993/94. Perhaps “the last” was being a bit presumptuous as Julian Watson of Belfast has researched a small enclave of piping elsewhere in North Yorkshire in the 1930s, but AFAIK never published his findings.

The historical links between Scandinavia and eastern Britain are very strong and go back into pre-history. The most obvious manifestations of course are the Anglo-Saxon and Viking invasions - the Viking invasion involved much settlement in northern England, and was a major influence on north British dialects. There are well attested examples of Cumbrian and Northumbrian dialect speakers communicating with Norwegians in the 20th century, albeit on a very simple level. Nor was this a one way traffic, hence the playing of Engelskas (“Englishes” - actually hornpipes) in Sweden.

[james moran]

Originally Posted by MatthewVanitas

Well, now you've done it. I felt obligated to go produce a fully-footnoted Wikipedia article.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincolnshire_bagpipes

Now I just need to contact the Trust that commissioned the reproduction and get a good photo.

I'll take a walk up sometime soon and see if I can get my hands on them and take a few photos.