CITES Certificate?

Gr8_Piper · 05-02-2012, 10:52 AM

When is a CITES certificate required/ Does it have to do with the age of the ivory on the pipes. Is some ivory exempt?

Steve Anderson · 05-02-2012, 11:11 AM

Only exempt if you have a certificate. It is required for transporting the pipes across customs boundaries of every nation. It is my understanding that to carry to Canada, for example, that a cites permit is needed to carry it into canada (a permit from the canadians) and a separate permit to get it back into the states.

I've heard mention of an exemption for a personal musical instrument, but I wouldn't bet my pipes on it.

Piperalpha · 05-02-2012, 12:00 PM

It was my understanding that a permit from the country of origin was required. If you live in Canada and are going to play in Scotland than you would need a Canadian permit. I tried a set of pipes from New Zealand and did not require a permit to send them back. I had to include the original permit and declare I was returning the to their country of origin. The rules may have changed since then. You have to prove the ivory is pre cites as well. A search for cites and your country would be your best bet is gathering the information you require. You should also search the for the rules and regulations of the country you plan to import the pipes to. If memory serves the permit is only good for a certain period of time. It's not something you take out once. You would have to pull a permit every time were taking the pipes out of country. I'm not sure what the regulations on marine ivory is. It's easier proving the age with silver mounted sets as they typically have a hallmark.

Patrick McLaurin · 05-02-2012, 12:31 PM

From my research, you MAY need an export permit from the country of origin AND an import permit for the country you are in.

There have been several very long threads regarding this in the past.

Macswegan · 05-02-2012, 01:00 PM

Here's one of the old threads. There are probably others.

http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/...d.php?t=134778

AHT · 05-02-2012, 02:04 PM

Dougie Forsyth just sent me a 1930's full Ivory Gillanders set from New Zealand, he obtained a Cites certificate from New Zealand, and i recieved them no problems in Australia.

Gr8_Piper · 05-02-2012, 02:28 PM

Suppose it involves a sale of pipes in Scotland to be shipped to the USA. Who gets the certificate? The seller to transport the pipes? It's a little confusing. how would one establish the age of the ivory?

Pip01 · 05-02-2012, 03:58 PM

Gr8 Piper,

It is my understanding that the U.S. Government requires
that elephant ivory be at least 100 years old... before it
will issue the certificate.

It is also my understanding that different nations have (very)
different time frames on what they consider "old enough" to
qualify for a/the certificate.

And yet another "also" ..... in order to be absolutely legal,
you will need the certificate from the country from which the
ivory came... and... you will need the import or entrance
certificate from the U.S. Government... to legally receive
it here.

Good Luck with it.

Regards,

Pip01

Bill Adam · 05-02-2012, 04:18 PM

Here you will find a pdf from the US Fish & Wildlife Service regarding African Elephant Ivory.

http://library.fws.gov/IA_Pubs/afric...nt_ivory99.pdf

Here is an interesting portion as to traveling out of the US with ivory as personal effects.

Worked ivory acquired or possessed in
the United States can be exported by
U.S. res-idents as accompanying
personal effects. However, most CITES
countries do not recognize this special
exemption. To prevent any possibility of
your items being seized, contact the
Management Authority of the country
you will be visiting to determine its

requirements.

This pdf may answer some questions but also bring up other questions. Yes, in some instances, the ivory must be antique, over 100 years. But if it was harvested pre-ban, prior to Feb 4, 1977 you can get a pre convention certificate from US Fish and Game.

North Idaho Piper · 05-02-2012, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Adam

... But if it was harvested pre-ban, prior to Feb 4, 1977 you can get a pre convention certificate from US Fish and Game.

My pipes were made in 1986. It was perfectly legal to buy and sell ivory at the time. My pipes were made by David Naill, Co. and imported to the U.S... all perfectly legal. It is legal for me to own them and travel within the U.S.

BUT... I cannot get a CITES certificate. Therefore, I will not take them out of the country.

Karl

05-02-2012, 10:52 AM	#1
Gr8_Piper Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fallbrook, CA and La Bufadora, Mexico Posts: 1,072	CITES Certificate? When is a CITES certificate required/ Does it have to do with the age of the ivory on the pipes. Is some ivory exempt? __________________ "To listen to piobaireachd is to hear the sound of history itself"

05-02-2012, 11:11 AM	#2
Steve Anderson Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: TN, USA Posts: 2,391	Re: CITES Certificate? Only exempt if you have a certificate. It is required for transporting the pipes across customs boundaries of every nation. It is my understanding that to carry to Canada, for example, that a cites permit is needed to carry it into canada (a permit from the canadians) and a separate permit to get it back into the states. I've heard mention of an exemption for a personal musical instrument, but I wouldn't bet my pipes on it.

05-02-2012, 12:00 PM	#3
Piperalpha Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 1,047	Re: CITES Certificate? It was my understanding that a permit from the country of origin was required. If you live in Canada and are going to play in Scotland than you would need a Canadian permit. I tried a set of pipes from New Zealand and did not require a permit to send them back. I had to include the original permit and declare I was returning the to their country of origin. The rules may have changed since then. You have to prove the ivory is pre cites as well. A search for cites and your country would be your best bet is gathering the information you require. You should also search the for the rules and regulations of the country you plan to import the pipes to. If memory serves the permit is only good for a certain period of time. It's not something you take out once. You would have to pull a permit every time were taking the pipes out of country. I'm not sure what the regulations on marine ivory is. It's easier proving the age with silver mounted sets as they typically have a hallmark.

05-02-2012, 12:31 PM	#4
Patrick McLaurin Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,498	Re: CITES Certificate? From my research, you MAY need an export permit from the country of origin AND an import permit for the country you are in. There have been several very long threads regarding this in the past. __________________ Piping Blog - Homepage - Pekaar's Tune Encyclopedia - Convert BMW to ABC

05-02-2012, 01:00 PM	#5
Macswegan Forum Gold Medal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 668	Re: CITES Certificate? Here's one of the old threads. There are probably others. http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/...d.php?t=134778 __________________ "Totally lacking rhythm and musicality" since 1988!

05-02-2012, 02:04 PM	#6
AHT Forum Member - Shy or Quiet Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Adelaide Posts: 8	Re: CITES Certificate? Dougie Forsyth just sent me a 1930's full Ivory Gillanders set from New Zealand, he obtained a Cites certificate from New Zealand, and i recieved them no problems in Australia.

05-02-2012, 02:28 PM	#7
Gr8_Piper Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fallbrook, CA and La Bufadora, Mexico Posts: 1,072	Re: CITES Certificate? Suppose it involves a sale of pipes in Scotland to be shipped to the USA. Who gets the certificate? The seller to transport the pipes? It's a little confusing. how would one establish the age of the ivory? __________________ "To listen to piobaireachd is to hear the sound of history itself"

05-02-2012, 03:58 PM	#8
Pip01 Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: North America Posts: 1,277	Re: CITES Certificate? Gr8 Piper, It is my understanding that the U.S. Government requires that elephant ivory be at least 100 years old... before it will issue the certificate. It is also my understanding that different nations have (very) different time frames on what they consider "old enough" to qualify for a/the certificate. And yet another "also" ..... in order to be absolutely legal, you will need the certificate from the country from which the ivory came... and... you will need the import or entrance certificate from the U.S. Government... to legally receive it here. Good Luck with it. Regards, Pip01 __________________ My friends all know, With what a brave carouse...

05-02-2012, 04:18 PM	#9
Bill Adam Forum Clasp Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 975	Re: CITES Certificate? Here you will find a pdf from the US Fish & Wildlife Service regarding African Elephant Ivory. http://library.fws.gov/IA_Pubs/afric...nt_ivory99.pdf Here is an interesting portion as to traveling out of the US with ivory as personal effects. Worked ivory acquired or possessed in the United States can be exported by U.S. res-idents as accompanying personal effects. However, most CITES countries do not recognize this special exemption. To prevent any possibility of your items being seized, contact the Management Authority of the country you will be visiting to determine its requirements. This pdf may answer some questions but also bring up other questions. Yes, in some instances, the ivory must be antique, over 100 years. But if it was harvested pre-ban, prior to Feb 4, 1977 you can get a pre convention certificate from US Fish and Game. __________________ Character is what you are when no one is looking.