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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 10-18-2013, 07:17 AM   #1
R. Lawson
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Default World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

From http://www.rspba.org/html/newsdetail.php?id=423. Some fear Friday/Saturday for religious purposes but not set YET. The World's Drumming Soloists tomorrow will not need to provide further feedback - robin
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:
Friday, 18th October 2013
Contributor: Ian Embelton - HQ


World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement


Details Following the feedback from the 2013 World Pipe Band Championships the RSPBA Board of Directors have met and discussed a new format for the 2014 event. The operational implications will be discussed with the event team in Glasgow next week with details released soon after.

Our absolute priority is to provide an event which focuses on the needs of over 200 bands from around the world, ensuring the very best in pipe band competition and performance. We have listened to the feedback of the competitors and spectators and responded to ensure we continue to host the premier piping competition in the world. (my highlighting - r.l.)

Ian Embelton
Chief Executive

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Old 10-18-2013, 08:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Yep, heard from a friend and also saw the Friday/Saturday event mentioned on another forum. From what I've been told, the feedback received included a great amount from bands in a particular branch who all wanted a move away from competing on a Sunday.

This should be discussed at branch level and I'd suggest if anyone is particularly opposed to Friday/Saturday that they ensure their bands voice is heard.
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Old 10-20-2013, 02:40 PM   #3
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Lawson View Post

World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement


(snip)

Following the feedback from the 2013 World Pipe Band Championships the RSPBA Board of Directors have met and discussed a new format for the 2014 event. The operational implications will be discussed with the event team in Glasgow next week with details released soon after.

Our absolute priority is to provide an event which focuses on the needs of over 200 bands from around the world, ensuring the very best in pipe band competition and performance.We have listened to the feedback of the competitors and spectators and responded to ensure we continue to host the premier piping competition in the world. (my highlighting - r.l.)

Ian Embelton
Chief Executive
Interesting post. The discussion here then is that they're considering not holding the competition on a day (which is a weekend day btw) because of a few bands' religious beliefs? That's disgusting to me, I believe religion should have no say in this. I respect them but they will need to excuse themselves from competition if they can't attend. And as far as the RSPBA all I can think of is "They listened?! They listened?!?" I'm going to need an anger translator soon, this organization does not exemplify the word used to describe who they are.

For example, what about the Novice Juvenile Knox Grammar School Pipe Band from Sydney, Australia? Did they listen to their needs as they denied the band entrance over a piece of paper after they had already invested so much money and months of time? http://www.pipesdrums.com/ViewObject....M5xQibdo.dpuf

How about how the RSPBA waste their and bands' time by holding qualifiers for the top grades. Or the recent past (last year even) basing bands' performances by qualifiers and past history instead of a fair, direct single competition throughout the day where everyone is on the same ground and has the same opportunity to perform well and win (all things considered)? This year I believe they accepted 12 out of 14 grade 1 bands. As an organization they spent all morning to remove 2 bands?!?
http://www.viewsfromthecircle.co.uk/...championships/ How much did that cost in terms of man hours and expended energy? Huge.

The 1930's called, they said you're doing a great job RSPBA.
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Old 10-20-2013, 04:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Sorry William, maybe the article isn't clear but there were actually 24 grade 1 bands in the qualifiers in the morning. What the blogger is referring to is the decision to cut the final from 14 bands (in previous years) to 12 bands this year.
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Old 10-22-2013, 01:58 AM   #5
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by Churchill View Post
Sorry William, maybe the article isn't clear but there were actually 24 grade 1 bands in the qualifiers in the morning. What the blogger is referring to is the decision to cut the final from 14 bands (in previous years) to 12 bands this year.
Fair enough. I probably should have done more research before advocating harshley.

However, if there were 24 grade 1 bands that played in the initial heat over a single day and then of that 12 were allowed to play again in another final heat, that makes 36 medleys and 36 MSRs no? Why would that be better than simply 24 medleys/MSRs total? The judging would stay the same and the best bands on that day take 1st, 2nd, and 3rd as they would normally.

I don't mean to be combative, but I have a very hard time trying to understand what the qualifiers actually do for anyone in terms of man hours, scheduling, money, two day system vs. one, bands in other grade who use the same arena/field, unified prize announcements, media, etc. On top this it's very discouraging to the piping culture as a whole when you have bands that spill their hearts and funds out to go all that way just to be told they cannot even compete for an event that has real meaning to it (essentially)
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:27 PM   #6
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

On the surface of it, those seem like very reasonable questions, William - but a little history may shed some perspective. Each year (after the August showdown) the disappointed grouse about the format on these Forums and other venues - and the format has been rejigged perennially as long as I am aware, going back 3 + decades. Leading up to the 90's the popularity of the Worlds' for overseas competitors was increasing dramatically, inspired in no small measure by the successes of the 2 Canadian Bands. Even the Antipodean Bands from Aus + NZ were beginning to spring for expensively making usually a several weeks' trip to climb Mt. Impossible. One of them made it on about their 9th attempt in the 90s after SFU finally arrived in their 13th (?) attempt. The 78ths were shrewder but possibly even shorter termed, eventually, with their 5 year plan - according to their PM's interview on the Beeb Radio in 1987. So, as C.E. Embleton points out - "there's no other game in town" (so far) = a shrinking planet. Bob Shepherd, MBE (very influential in the RSPBA then and since) said the high number of entries late 80s at 20+ Bands in the premium Grade 1, was such that "God Almighty Himself" could not Judge and discriminate such a melange properly. So seeding began of sorts in 1995 at Scotstoun, I believe (my own observation was its implementation was very "latently" obvious when I played at the last Bellahouston in 1994). Different versions and qualifier formats have been attempted but most concede that more than 15 Bands say, and the Contest becomes unwieldy for human judges. This 2 day Worlds' was possibly a clever economic ruse for the Incorporated RSPBA or a legitimate effort to answer some very prominent Grade 1 complaints from abroad. Toronto even went to Cowal in 2010 just to display their musically controversial Medley, giving the surrounding years a miss at the Worlds' (2009 -11). There are no easy solutions and the expenses outlaid by overseas Bands will always lead to deep seated disappointments (the Agony of Defeat, but the thrill and elation of Victory makes it all so sweetly worthwhile). I am not a huge RSPBA fan but they are doing a superlative, technically efficient job of running a Colossus of a Competition that involves so many Contests in one swoop. They will always be criticized regardless. And their decision in conjunction with the fiscally astute Glasgow Council is not in yet.

Personally, I was happy seeing 48 to 50 presentations with top flite Bands in the Premium events over the wet weekend including the likes of FM/SFU showing both Sets and Medleys. Out of towners got to strut their Band Medleys against Boghall/Glasgow/Power in 1 circle or SFU/SLOT/FM/IDPB in the other. If they were truly capable of top 10 or so, they had a double circle chance to prove it like the 2 Bands from NZ. Otherwise, keep working at it. And believe me, the results on Saturday were very meaningful to all those Grade 1 Bands, and the dislike of the extra 26 hours pressure for the usual favourites will have been relayed to the RSPBA.
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Old 11-01-2013, 10:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Here was me being confused by the Grand Economist PM of Canada's unapologetically swaggering rhetoric tonite and then I stumble on this completed survey.

Wow: http://www.pipesdrums.com/imageLibra...stionanire.jpg the questions

http://www.pipesdrums.com/imageLibra...rvey2013_2.jpg
and the seeming answers.

I find it curious only some 1/3rd of Bands appeared to reply but the queries get tougher. Like answer C, and then the surprising result for answer B in light of that - go figger? But the positive comments seem interesting leading off with the first one about a level playing field as reported in the bottom of the article: http://www.pipesdrums.com/ViewObject...e&sys-ID=19296

As always in democracy - the people's choice and they have spoken, kind of. I suspect religious consideration was not the major element in the 2 day choice that some people surmised.
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:49 AM   #8
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

I was curious after the winning FM PM's incisive remarks in the updated PD article: "I felt that from a competitive aspect the two day event was a success," 2013 World Champions Field Marshal Montgomery Pipe-Major Richard Parkes said. "The playing requirements for all grades were more challenging and the qualification system was fair for all bands. I believe that it would have been fairer to have had a separate draw for the finals in each case. The biggest issue for me was the lack of crowds and atmosphere on the Saturday. A lot of this could have been down to the weather but it is concerning and something that will have to be considered when planning for 2014."

How would it have stacked up if the Saturday results had been inserted into the Totals (?) - with an even more gruelling and challenging 4 Circle, but separated, Contest. So I did this tack-on to the original Finals' results (even with Bands not competing under this condition of combined overall standings). Not surprisingly - very little alteration with minor shifts: Boghall being even closer, and as many remarked on the Sunday nite and Monday, the Boggies would have won overall if FM got Saturday's drumming results on the Sunday (but they didn't). IDPB could have crept up to 5th with Glasgow tieing SLOT based on an amazing MSR result Saturday (none of which circle I heard live, and has not been recorded for Live Stream - perhaps the basis of One of the Negatives in the Poll). Still all 3 close of course in this tough Contest. Dowco would have edged ahead of Manawatu, who continued to improve noticeably throughout the week with the infusion of several international players to the Kiwi squad in Scotland, I was informed.

It seems the overall single arbiter (but NOT exclusively) is Band tone and sound these days just as tends to appear in the Glenfiddich etc. Increasingly the top Bands are pulling away with that ensemble sound and effect as well. Some 2 + weeks later we still await the final decision from the RSPBA as to format, now that the Glasgow Council has seemingly had their input and this interesting survey has been leaked. Perhaps Churchill knows more from the Branch level.

Using Saturday Results with totals:

Band, Finals' Sunday Totals, Saturday Heats' Set, Heats' Medley, Grand 4 circle Total

Field Marshal Montgomery ......... 15, 6, 13, 34
Boghall and Bathgate Caledonia... 23, 8, 6, 37
Scottish Power ..........................33, 11, 7, 51
Simon Fraser University - Canada 37, 14, 9, 60
St Laurence O'Toole - Eire............41, 17, 12, 70
Inveraray and District .................44, 10, 15, 69
Greater Glasgow Police Pipe Band .49, 8, 13, 70
Shotts and Dykehead Caledonia ...58, 19, 16, 93
Manawatu Scottish - New Zealand 76, 19, 26, 121
Dowco Triumph Street - Canada ....77, 20, 18, 115
Canterbury Caledonian Society -NZ.82, 24, 27, 133
Cullybackey .................................89, 28, 21, 138 (trying to fool Dunsire's software's protocols for a chart table is always a challenge)
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Old 11-03-2013, 12:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

Quote:
Originally Posted by R. Lawson View Post

Using Saturday Results with totals:

Band, Finals' Sunday Totals, Saturday Heats' Set, Heats' Medley, Grand 4 circle Total

Field Marshal Montgomery ......... 15, 6, 13, 34
Boghall and Bathgate Caledonia... 23, 8, 6, 37
Scottish Power ..........................33, 11, 7, 51
Simon Fraser University - Canada 37, 14, 9, 60
St Laurence O'Toole - Eire............41, 17, 12, 70
Inveraray and District .................44, 10, 15, 69
Greater Glasgow Police Pipe Band .49, 8, 13, 70
Shotts and Dykehead Caledonia ...58, 19, 16, 93
Manawatu Scottish - New Zealand 76, 19, 26, 121
Dowco Triumph Street - Canada ....77, 20, 18, 115
Canterbury Caledonian Society -NZ.82, 24, 27, 133
Cullybackey .................................89, 28, 21, 138 (trying to fool Dunsire's software's protocols for a chart table is always a challenge)
Robin that impressive table looks as if it should mean something. What I mean is, can you tell us in summary what it means?
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Old 11-03-2013, 06:03 PM   #10
R. Lawson
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Default Re: World Pipe Band Championships 2014 - Statement

As stated above the Table: Band, Finals' Sunday Totals, Saturday Heats' Set, Heats' Medley, Grand 4 circle Total (for the 4 separate #s in each row)

Meaning the Band Name, then firstly their total Score (2 circles) on Sunday determining rankings to end up with the Official Final result. I then added or tacked on (in the same line) the Saturday total in the MSR, then the Medley on Saturday to end up with a Grand Total based on all the Weekend's 4 circles. Hope that helps, Heatherbelle.
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