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History, Tradition, Heritage As related to the subjects of piping, drumming and pipe bands.

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Old 06-02-2004, 01:26 PM   #21
Iain Sherwood
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Try looking on my website for 'Theresa Soder,' a three part waltz that goes very well with Terry Tully's infamous 'Ass.'
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Old 06-03-2004, 07:04 AM   #22
Jay Close
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Jim:

Having learned "Farewell to Nigg" from Duncan himself off a manuscript in his own hand, I can state with authority that it was composed in 3/4 time. He was perplexed by the setting the Scots Guards II book where it appears as a 6/4 -- but to my mind the 6/4 presentation does make the phrasing more obvious. This of course just points up an issue that Duncan would have made: the music isn't really on the page. It's in your head, heart, hands and ear.
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Old 06-03-2004, 11:49 AM   #23
Jim Roberts
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Thanks for the insight, Jay.

Jim
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Old 06-03-2004, 12:30 PM   #24
Bill Adam
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

To quote Jim Close:

Quote:
the music isn't really on the page. It's in your head, heart, hands and ear.
In twenty-nine years of teaching high school music, I have heard bands that are technically superior, but give the dullest performance. They play exactly what is printed. All they are doing is playing the notes, not making music.

That is something I have always stressed. You need to get beyond the notes on the page in order to really create music, and that comes from within you.

The highest compliment some of my groups have received from a judge at festival is, "I have heard a lot of groups today, but I didn't hear any music till your group played."

I apologize for being off the topic of 3/4 but Jim prompted this thought.
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:59 PM   #25
Don't engage Daegan with Hypocrisy
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Thanks for the suggestion Iain -- I'm going to look at all of what you have there actually, but with focus on "Theresa Soder".

As for "Maestro & The Minions", Jim, that was one of the first ones I came across when I started looking for other waltzs -- thanks, but it hasn't quite grabbed me for this.

I've come up with a copy of "Looking for the Fifth Foot of the Cat", which is a French Waltz by L.E.McCullough -- didn't quite flip my switch.

Somewhere I've also come up with (I think it was a BDF seach using "waltz")...
  • Dark Island (already using it as an air on the album elsewhere)
  • Jester's Waltz, by John Dyer, which apparently has an alternating time-sig -- which is curious to me
  • The Foxhunter's Jig tweaked into a waltz -- didn't quite work for me
  • Champlain Waltz #4
  • Star Of The Country, slow waltz -- I'm already using another slow waltz to kick off the tune set
  • Tombigbee Waltz
  • The Mason's Appron in waltz time, apparently this is at the end of the 2001 SFU medly
  • A quick waltz on track 4 (last tune) of the Victoria Police's "Live in Ireland", which may be titled "Thorton Dick". Apparently this also appears on the Toronto Police's CD "On The Beat".
Any remarks, any other suggestions? If it helps, ultimately I'm looking to play this set up around 160BPM, except of course the slow waltz I'm using to kick off the set alternating (I think I have planned at present) between 104 and 140BPMs.

Overall, it's interesting -- I've been finding it difficult to find waltzs. Any ideas what's up with that?
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Old 06-07-2004, 06:49 PM   #26
Klondike Waldo
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Quote:
Originally posted by Daegan is eating lunch:
Thanks for the suggestion Iain

snip


Somewhere I've also come up with (I think it was a BDF seach using "waltz")...[list]
snip[*]Star Of The Country, slow waltz -- I'm already using another slow waltz to kick off the tune set

{KW:} do you mean "The Star of The County Down"?


Overall, it's interesting -- I've been finding it difficult to find waltzs. Any ideas what's up with that?
You mentioed Champlain Waltz #4- That's one of my compositions but it's in A minor- easy enough on Lowland pipes, but may not work out on GHB. There are of course Champlain Waltzes 1, 2 & 3 in the same collection, plus "Roisin A Cheo" (could be played as a jazz waltz), "A Moon For The Sharing", "Bloomsday Roses", "Ashley Rose LeBlanc" (could be played as a Cajun waltz or mazurka), "Geraldine's Waltz", "Under The Arbor" and "Miss Madison Cameron" In addition, two of tthe sow marches in the collection, "Piper Jon's Wedding" and "The Gloucester Wedding" can also be played as waltzes- Gloucester work particularly well as a waltz, in fact.

I'd guess there are not a lot of waltzes out there because there are no competition events for waltzes.
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:54 PM   #27
Sandy Henderson
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Quote:
In twenty-nine years of teaching high school music, I have heard bands that are technically superior, but give the dullest performance. They play exactly what is printed. All they are doing is playing the notes, not making music.
I think this hits it right on the head.

Printed music, I was always taught, was a guide. I have never thought that I was marching to a 3/4, 6/8 or 2/4. I did not hop from one foot to the other becouse I worried about how the beat note fell.

As for Andy Stewarts murder of Green Hills and Lochanside I think these tunes are generally played badly becouse some pipers are thinking on these crap words and arrangements.

Sometimes I think we examine too much how the tunes have been set out and less on how they can be expressed.
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Old 06-20-2004, 06:45 PM   #28
pipesofdoom
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

The reason that the "up-beat" is placed after the bar-line is because of the strike-in. The up-beat in a retreat march (either 3/4 or 9/8) is at least one crotchet long (i.e. a quater note, or one whole foot-step).

Playing the up-beat before the bar would not leave enough time for a clean and clear strike-in on the "E". Yes, it is possible, but the effect is not as good as playing the up-beat after the bar (and on the wrong foot as a result).

Interestingly, the first collection of Standard Army settings type-set many of the retreat marches in the "correct" and literal way, but this was then altered in the second book to place the up-beats after the bar. The reason for the change was not given, other than noting that the change was in accordance with practice.
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Old 06-25-2004, 10:55 AM   #29
Alba2usa
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Would you all agree,(or not) that tunes quite often are barred wrong! if we follow the basic rule of, (and I'm not saying you should)'it's the phrasing that determinds where the bar lines fall, then loads of tunes are barred wrong! One famous tune comes to mind a 3/4, which if we subscribe to the above is definately a 6/4.

A famous drummer was once asked by the composer of said tune, what time sig. do think this new tune of mine is? After hearing it on chanter, back came the immediate reply 6/4! And the composers reaction was... I knew it, I knew it, damn it, I knew it! It's too late now it's gone to the publisher! The big man said to the composer, "if you knew it, why did you put it in 3/4, His rational was "It would never get played as a 6/4, so I put it in 3/4". (He was right, because it gets played all the time now.)

My lesson at the time of hearing this story from the big man was, "it's okay to cross the bar line with the phrasing once in a while, but if it crosses the bar line ALL the time then it's barred wrong.

Cheers Hamish
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Old 07-22-2004, 05:58 AM   #30
Scott Malcolm
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Default Re: 3/4 Marches

Iain's "Theresa Soder" is a great tune! Works well paired up with his other one, "Fiona's Farewell".

Scott
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