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Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

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  • Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

    Surprised this hasn't been raised yet:

    http://montrealgazette.com/news/loca...ditional-knife

  • #2
    Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

    I know of one piper who was asked about his dirk by a police officer on 6th Street in Austin. Fortunately, for him, the officer was willing to escort him to his nearby car and let him put it in the trunk. I also know of another young piper, who got upset that someone at a 6th Street bar was flirting with his girlfriend while he was otherwise occupied playing with his band on St Patrick's Day, and pulled his dirk and threatened the other fellow. Fortunately, bar staff and fellow bandsmen intervened and no police were involved.

    Cheers -

    Wes

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    • #3
      Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

      Originally posted by John Buchanan View Post

      knife"]http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/montreal-police-ticket-veteran-bagpiper-for-carrying-traditional-knife[/URL]
      anybody know exactly what the stipulated offense/broken law was?

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

        "Police thought otherwise, and fined McCarthy $220 for carrying a weapon in a public place."
        http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/police-se...iper-1.3145493

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        • #5
          Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

          Originally posted by Yappy View Post
          "Police thought otherwise, and fined McCarthy $220 for carrying a weapon in a public place."
          http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/police-se...iper-1.3145493

          I think maybe because he wasn't French. Fwiw...pretty dodgy looking hose and kit for a Piper and ex BW though.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

            Not being Canadian, I wouldn't presume to comment on the current situation with the Montreal Police (as alluded to in the comments following the article), but I have quit wearing a sgian dubh because of the several hassles I've had in The States since 9/11 with security/ law enforcement due to the sgian dubh being perceived as a semi-concealed weapon (which it is).

            I don't even wear a sgian dubh to Highland Games anymore. To me, it's just not worth the trouble.
            -Dennis McGlone

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            • #7
              Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

              Originally posted by MacGiollaEoin View Post

              , it's just not worth the trouble.
              Yes...I've been looking for a nice faux dubh myself.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                Originally posted by el gaitero View Post
                anybody know exactly what the stipulated offense/broken law was?
                Kind of curious about this myself. I mean, are pocket knives off limits in Canada? I used to work in the restaurant biz and most of the chefs brought their own knives and took them home every day...and on the NYC subway at that.

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                • #9
                  Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                  I'd fight it! Not sure the police would want all the bad publicity that this case would attract. Might at least get the sgian dubh returned. Go get 'em! Be sure to keep us posted on the outcome.
                  Last edited by longwind; 11-05-2016, 05:46 AM.
                  Reedmaster

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                  • #10
                    Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                    Originally posted by longwind View Post
                    I'd fight it! Not sure the police would want all the bad publicity that this case would attract. Might at least get the sgian dubh returned. Go get 'em! Be sure to keep us posted on the outcome.
                    I recall that something similar happened with a
                    world-famous touring pipe band, in the late 1970's
                    or early 1980's. Scots Guards? Black Watch?

                    I don't have the details, but a big flap at the time.
                    Last edited by LloydB; 11-05-2016, 09:00 AM.
                    LloydB
                    *****

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                      Greetings to All,

                      Well... Sigh... Alas... and Alack....

                      Perhaps... just perhaps... the general civil laws in
                      Montreal... strikingly differ... from those in those
                      surrounding Provinces... or... generally speaking...
                      from those in the U.S.

                      Firstly: For most of the last hundred and fifty-odd
                      years... most men legally carried "pocket knives"
                      about with them... in their pockets... and hence...
                      they were... concealed.

                      The law(s) exempted this... as long as the blades
                      were three inches or less. (In some areas, 2 & 3/4
                      inches, or 2 & 1/2 inches, but most stated 3 inches.)

                      Coincidentally... out-in-the-open... and un-concealed
                      knives... and of almost any length... either worn on
                      the belt... or elsewhere on the surface of the clothing...
                      were equally and entirely... legal.

                      Now, and admittedly... an awful lot has changed since
                      Pearson was PM... but I would suspect... and indeed...
                      almost wager... that transferring the alleged "offense"
                      from a zealous constabulary... to the local Magistrate...
                      would see the charge... and the ticket... given a toss...

                      I have not seen a sgian dubh with a blade in excess
                      of three inches... and they are worn openly... and in
                      the hose top... and... are not concealed...

                      Further more... by both public and military custom and
                      practice... over a long period of time... and constituting
                      precedince... I don't think there would be much of a case
                      for the fellow to answer.

                      If... they still teach Latin... in law school... I believe that the
                      pertinent phrase is... res ipsa loquitur... "The thing speaks
                      for itself."

                      At this point I am curious as to how... this Constabulary...
                      handles... the Knights of Columbus public parades... ??

                      Shall we begin a fund for the fellow's defense? (Just a
                      thought... but Blast! if I would pay a fine sans Magistrate.)

                      Now the Golden Rule is... never argue with an officer...

                      It ain't nice... and that is why the Magistrate... is there!!

                      I can only trust that this shall turn out well...

                      Regards to All,

                      Pip01


                      Last edited by Pip01; 11-05-2016, 06:52 PM.
                      My friends all know,
                      With what a brave carouse...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                        Being a pocket knife and multi-tool collector with some older Scandinavian and Finnish fixed blades, I would note the following two points.

                        1. Yes, knife law has tightened in many countries and sub-national jurisdictions. The US is often very knife-easy, but with arcane variations in state and city law.

                        2. Typically officer discretion, location, and intent play a big role in warning versus confiscation or even prosecution.

                        Many cities have stricter laws than the regional jurisdiction in which they exist.

                        Australian states sometimes stipulate that a sgian dubh is OK worn with Highland gear.

                        Some laws consider concealment better than open carry, some the opposite.

                        10cm is a typical legal Max for a blade in tight control jurisdictions, but 6 or 7 as well.

                        Fixed blades are less legal than folding blades. BUT many jurisdictions define a locking folder a de facto fixed blade.

                        Often if you do not appear to be a problem you are safe. But an officer will always have the legal right to enforce a law.

                        Minors should be given faux dubhs. Carve a handle, black it, and voilą! I used a faux dubh when my band performed for a Marine Ball in Tel Aviv at an hotel. We had a room full of ambassadors and military liason officers. Two levels of security, US Marine, and Israeli. The Marine security didn't notice the knives. Israel security had electronic metal detectors, asked to see the knives, and asked if I would vouch for all the band members. We were vetted a week earlier. Our drummer was a police inspector.

                        All told, you can be taken down on the streets of one city having a 3" folder clipped to your pocket, or you can carry a switch blade legally, depending.

                        Canada is typically tighter than the US, but, in rural or agricultural areas, hunters, farmers, campers, hikers etc tend to be left alone in most civilized countries.

                        Always be aware that cities have their own knife laws. Establish whether or not your local police consider knives a big issue, and what is regarded as concealed.

                        In this day and age, when even many Swiss Army (Victorinox) folding knives are not legal, sgian dubhs must be of some concern. I have had police curiosity over my sgian dubh, yet a 10cm blade Swiss Army lock blade sat open in my pipe box.

                        Even Leatherman and other multi tools with lock blades are often illegal to carry in many cities, unless in connection to your work. Yet few police ever care unless you are brandishing or threatening with it.

                        Too much info, I know. But having a knife in a sock is no longer simple everywhere. Some politely ask you to remove the knife and lock it up. Other Montreal police may have ignored the sgian dubh. They would all be reasonable responses.
                        Last edited by David; 11-05-2016, 11:14 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                          Originally posted by el gaitero View Post
                          I think maybe because he wasn't French. Fwiw...pretty dodgy looking hose and kit for a Piper and ex BW though.
                          its his own personal kilt and hose, and he's not EX BW....

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                            The law in Montreal is no knives in public without a reasonable excuse. The cops on the scene did not take his excuse as reasonable and it is up to him to contest the fine. The by-law can be read here...
                            http://ville.montreal.qc.ca/sel/sypr...2409&typeDoc=1

                            As to the kilt I believe it to be the university kilt where he was playing that day. And as far as I know he is still an active member of the BW, an NCO in fact.


                            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                            Randy

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                            • #15
                              Re: Montreal Police confiscate sgian dubh!

                              Originally posted by el gaitero View Post
                              Yes...I've been looking for a nice faux dubh myself.
                              I bought one many years ago to use when I perform at schools. It is all plastic, should not be hard to find.

                              The Celtic Croft www.kilts-n-stuff.com
                              Weaponry/Sgian Dubhs/Safety Sgian Dubhs

                              Cheers! Phil
                              Last edited by Phil Lenihan; 11-07-2016, 09:50 PM.
                              Phil Lenihan - Piper,
                              San Jose Police Emerald Society Pipe Band

                              Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot
                              Another day with no plans to use Calculus

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