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  • Ivory keyboard destroyed

    https://www.rte.ie/amp/981737/?__twi...mpression=true



    Paul
    Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

  • #2
    Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

    I don't think that article is accurate when it says that the piano was exempt because it was built before 1914.

    The time the musical instrument was made doesn't have anything to do with it, does it? Because ivory can be put on an instrument of any age. A restorer can put new ivory rings on an original Baroque flute or new keys on an old piano. How are Customs agents to know what ivory is original and what isn't?

    If the law is written like that it's a huge loophole, because we can just get 19th century plain pipes and install real ivory mounts all over them and be legal.
    proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte

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    • #3
      Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

      ....as long as you have the original receipt...

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      • #4
        Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

        I saw this done to a set of pipes when the law first came in. Probably late 1980s. The pipes were sent to an instrument maker who stripped them of ivory, which in turn was destroyed. Over-zealous vandals. If the owner was given a chance to explain the age of the instrument and some proper research done, they would have been sent on I am sure. We haven't heard the last of these types of incidents, and it will now move on to the wood as well. It's lucky China is not a signatory, imagine all that blackwood being destroyed that is destined to be parquetry flooring and furniture!
        www.schoolofpiping.com

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        • #5
          Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

          What, exactly, does ivory bring to a set of pipes that would justify calling this vandalism?

          Absolutely nothing. No tonal quality. Aesthetics? Other options are available.

          The previous poster is right: what prevents new ivory from being mounted and imported with an “instrument” loophole? Nothing. Think of all the bat-s*#t crazy things people do to make money - from filtering honey and cutting it with HFC, to using machine oil to cut cooking oil, to mixing nut oil with olive oil, to using lead-based paint on children’s toys.

          Gimme a break. This whole ivory thing is a whingey crock of turds. If you have ivory pipes, leave them at home.



          -J David Hester, PhD
          Alt Pibroch Club
          www.altpibroch.com
          J David Hester
          Alt Pibroch Club
          altpibroch.com

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          • #6
            Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

            The current laws are a patchwork of unintelligible, haphazardly-enforced, Kafka-esque bureaucracy that does very little to actually suppress the trade in illegal ivory. That last bit is what's important.

            If they wanted to make a law that banned the sale, possession, transport, etc. of ivory, full-stop, then fine. Make that law, and enforce it. You're right: all of our old sets can be re-mounted (or consigned to a museum if their historicity warrants it). The reality is that I know of ZERO pipemakers who are creating new sets with poached ivory. You won't find any: a single incident would be the end of a career. In some places, using reclaimed ivory is legal, in others it's not, but in either event, the elephant in question is long dead. For better or worse, a large majority of old sets have at least some ivory on them, and given the conservation status of tonewoods, I don't think we should be banning their possession outright.

            What we have now is an uneven system, in which the laws apply differently depending on jurisdiction and the caprice of an enforcing officer. That's ineffective and wasteful. And yes, if you have an ivory set, your best bet is to scrupulously obey the laws: don't try to cross international borders with it without having the correct documentation and following the required procedures to the letter (as best as you can understand them...).

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            • #7
              Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

              Thanks Dan,

              That was what I was intending when I posted.

              Make sure all your I s are dotted and T s crossed, otherwise one could get into trouble.

              Paul.
              Against stupidity, the Gods themselves contend in vain.

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              • #8
                Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                .....yes...I think filling out all the paperwork correctly is essential so ‘they’ know exactly who has what and where it is ....to facilitate easy collection of the items under the next proclamation that no one should be allowed to possess any ivory/must be destroyed.

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                • #9
                  Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                  Including the elephants! Those evil critters are the primary source of this banned substance, lets get rid of all the elephants! oh.. wait...
                  Who Dares Bins

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                  • #10
                    Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                    Snark aside, the laws are hard to understand an hard to comply with. To cross an international border with an ivory-mounted instrument, you must present a valid CITES document. Obtaining that document requires the ability to offer evidence that your instrument is legally-owned, last changed hands before a specified date, and that its ivory was taken from the wild before various laws were enacted. Once that document is obtained, both the instrument and the paperwork must be inspected at every crossing, which may only be made at specific authorized ports. You are responsible for making sure this happens. Other countries may have other laws, and you need to comply with theirs as well. This applies to personal transportation for non-commercial purposes. Different rules apply to the sale of ivory (in general, international sales into and out of the US are not allowed).

                    Within the US, different states have different laws regarding the sale, possession, and transportation of ivory.

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                    • #11
                      Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                      Originally posted by Dan Bell View Post


                      Snark aside, the laws are hard to understand an hard to comply with.
                      .....yes...I didn’t read anywhere that a dedicated serial # would be engraved on the parts to differentiate this set from that at the crossing ...out of the hundreds of hundreds of the same by the same maker.

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                      • #12
                        Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                        In anticipation of competing at worlds last year, I acquired a document wherein it certifies that my pipes were 1930's Lawries, ivory throughout. I then acquired a CITES permit. Ready to go.

                        Not so fast!

                        USFWS notifies me (with about two weeks remaining) that the UK requires the same. Great! Lots of time to get that! NOT!

                        Plus, each time I left or entered either side of Atlantic, I needed to get someone to meet me at airport to look at pipes and documents. That was going to cost in the neighborhood of $75 each time. $300 total.

                        So, in order to transport my instrument across the briney, it was going to cost upwards of $500-$600. Thanks alot!

                        Forget it. I borrowed a set from a friend, and took them across.

                        Not once was I asked what was in my backpack, clearly marked with a patch saying 'BAGPIPES' on the front. Yeah, I was pretty frosted to not be able to play the instrument to which I've grown accustomed!

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                        • #13
                          Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                          Originally posted by brent View Post
                          Including the elephants! Those evil critters are the primary source of this banned substance, lets get rid of all the elephants! oh.. wait...
                          They make elephants with naugahyde and Polypenco tusks now. Problem solved.

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                          • #14
                            Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                            Originally posted by David View Post
                            They make elephants with naugahyde and Polypenco tusks now. Problem solved.
                            Don't want no flippin' MIM Elephant!

                            Want vintage, genuine Scottish Elephant!
                            LloydB
                            *****

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                            • #15
                              Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

                              Originally posted by RJB View Post

                              Not once was I asked what was in my backpack, clearly marked with a patch saying 'BAGPIPES' on the front. Yeah, I was pretty frosted to not be able to play the instrument to which I've grown accustomed!
                              This is one of the things that bothers me most. I'm perfectly fine not being stopped and questioned (especially since I have no ivory on my pipes), but I was never asked to show my pipes when leaving or entering the US or UK when I went to the worlds two years ago. USFWS makes a big deal about it (remember the kids who had their pipes confiscated at the US/Canada border a few years back) but doesn't do things across the board.

                              I even (unknowingly) took ivory mounted (just the bushes) pipes to the UK back in '04. I know it wasn't the same thing back then, but I moved ivory across boarders without any papers.
                              You don't have fun by winning. You win by having fun.

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