Thoughts on modern Naill pipes

[William McKenzie]

There has been some speculation as to whether there has been some change to the drones in recent years, and I know for a fact that there have been a few tweaks. Nearly a decade ago a small change to the drone lengths was made to help with the tuning position. Prior to that, some found it difficult to have the drones tuning up on the hemp at higher pitch. This was in no way a defect, the drones just tended to be in the sweet spot a little lower. I have owned sets prior to this change and my current set reflects the change. I love the change and have zero problem tuning as high up on the hemp as I wish and regularly play at 480 or higher.

Goes right to the premise of the White Mamba thread debating this exact Naill trait. That Naills by design typically tune, or previously tuned, at or below the hemp line relative to other makes.

Here is Alastair Lee demoing the newer "vintage" line, which reflect the bass changes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVx6O3Nzj8o

John

The Tartantown video you linked as well has the tenors playing at or below the hemp. This appears now to be several first person experiences and an unrelated video showing this distinction.

Screen-Shot-2021-05-06-at-13.48.07-e1620349740261.png

[Patrick McLaurin]

Goes right to the premise of the White Mamba thread debating this exact Naill trait. That Naills by design typically tune, or previously tuned, at or below the hemp line relative to other makes.

The debate in the other thread is whether Naill's design is inherently flatter, thus resulting in tenors tuning lower on the pin if you were to say swap in a set of drone reeds from another set of pipes VERSUS purposefully setting your drone reeds flatter for the specific purpose of tuning Naill tenors lower on the pin because they were *designed* not to be flatter but to be expressly tuned lower on the pin, regardless of chanter pitch. The latter reasoning being understood by someone who had their older Naill tenor drones tuning with hemp showing on the pins and upon hearing the statement then flattened their drone reeds so that the tenors would tune lower/sharper on the pin. Which is absurd. Inherently flatter pipes doesn't mean they were designed with the intent for you to set their tuning position to purposefully tune lower on the pin, it just means they will tune lower on the pin if you've got a sharper chanter and you haven't accounted for that in your drone reed setup.

The fact, as it would seem, that Naill has addressed this tuning height issue indicates that they are acknowleding that chanter pitches have climbed and they'd like for you to be able to tune their tenor drones with hemp showing without taking drone reed setups to extremes to get there. Which simply acknowledges that their older design was simply, inherently flatter, but NOT designed to specifically tune lower on the pin forever and always.

[William McKenzie]

The debate in the other thread is whether Naill's design is inherently flatter, thus resulting in tenors tuning lower on the pin if you were to say swap in a set of drone reeds from another set of pipes VERSUS purposefully setting your drone reeds flatter for the specific purpose of tuning Naill tenors lower on the pin because they were *designed* not to be flatter but to be expressly tuned lower on the pin, regardless of chanter pitch. The latter reasoning being understood by someone who had their older Naill tenor drones tuning with hemp showing on the pins and upon hearing the statement then flattened their drone reeds so that the tenors would tune lower/sharper on the pin. Which is absurd. Inherently flatter pipes doesn't mean they were designed with the intent for you to set their tuning position to purposefully tune lower on the pin, it just means they will tune lower on the pin if you've got a sharper chanter and you haven't accounted for that in your drone reed setup.

The fact, as it would seem, that Naill has addressed this tuning height issue indicates that they are acknowleding that chanter pitches have climbed and they'd like for you to be able to tune their tenor drones with hemp showing without taking drone reed setups to extremes to get there. Which simply acknowledges that their older design was simply, inherently flatter, but NOT designed to specifically tune lower on the pin forever and always.

Fair points. I'm guessing there are other sets of past pipes etc. too that need deeper drone reed adjustments to tune higher on the pins as well, but Naill seems to be the most ubiquitous especially for a modern maker.

Considering the video is of Naill's new Vintage line and still tuning at or below the hemp I'm wondering if this is a word of mouth thing, i.e. people have this tuning height on older Naills because they don't adjust their drone reeds to match sharper pitches or because their drone reeds can't compensate as much as is needed. Overtime people's word of mouth would begin to assume this is where Naills should tune on the pins and adjust their sets to tune there.

The usual 'they tune where they tune' should apply regardless of make, whether some drone sets like to stay in tune lower or higher on their pins. But it's still interesting nonetheless that it seems to be a universal aspect of Naill owners to adjust their drone reeds until they tune at or below the hemp line. For my own playing I don't really care how much hemp is showing on my sets so long as the tenor tops are secure and the pipes are stable.

[Patrick McLaurin]

If you were advertising engraved pipes with slides, would you set them up to display the hemp or the silver?

[DrBlow]

I got my Naills at the end of 2014 because my 1890s Hutcheons were too challenging to reed up to 480Hz and being ivory mounted were problematic for travel. The Naills have a tremendous tone and are solid solid solid to play. I’ve had numerous judges tell me the drone sound is great when I compete (shame about the rest of it…)

My set has a huge tenor sound and yes it took a few weeks to get used to tuning the extra harmonic presence. But once you crack that they are wonderful. And the bass is not shy or retiring either.

[LeoCDN]

My set of “vintage” DN5 pipes arrived in June… I loved the experience of working with the team there (Martin/David). It’s interesting, I had a traditional set of Ezeedrone reeds… and together with my instructor who also plays Nails, It’s been a bit of a challenge to have the tenors tune 5mm up on the hemp.

my Nail ABW chanter with a McPhee reed tunes 474-8 depending on the day… Using the traditional Ezeedrone tenors… I’ve had to remove the rubber interface and re-hemp to have the reed body directly up against the drone seat (no space), And the tuning pins are screwed right into the body… In my situation I feel the drones are definitely turning flat.

im waiting on Chris for a replacement bass drone reed (Xtreme) as the traditional Ezeedrone base was a bit lacking.

interested to hear if my observations are common.

Leo

[Mac an t-Sealgair]

Naill did tweak the bass profile to give a 'bigger bolder sound'. Not sure when though. A few years ago.

Yeah, this is true. Mine are early 2019s and they have the new bass profile.

[Mac an t-Sealgair]

I am a fully paid up member of the David Naill Bagpipes fan club

My opinion of them is exceptional quality and tone. The whole experience, from dealing with Martin and selecting my spec, to receiving the pipes and most importantly playing them, has been amazing.

I have used several different reed combinations in my pipes, all of which have been rock steady (within my skill level, I'm no Glenfiddich champion) and had unique and pleasing attributes. Tuning wise, mine set around 475ish are right on the hemp line. I suppose it's how you set them up?
The new bass profile bell produces a fuller bass (if I'm honest I don't have the skill/the ear to be able to compare) but there is a definate bass presence producing lovely harmonics on B especially.

I have no problem tuning the pipes, bass included. These are by far and away the easiest to tune and steadiest pipes I have ever played. I have other sets now too, but I always go to these.

Running Xtreme bass and Selbie tenors at the minute.

If I knew how to post pictures I would!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QpCMy-X2ryuycAX1HjIaHVnTUOBJO0GW/view?usp=sharing

[William McKenzie]

I am a fully paid up member of the David Naill Bagpipes fan club

My opinion of them is exceptional quality and tone. The whole experience, from dealing with Martin and selecting my spec, to receiving the pipes and most importantly playing them, has been amazing.

I have used several different reed combinations in my pipes, all of which have been rock steady (within my skill level, I'm no Glenfiddich champion) and had unique and pleasing attributes. Tuning wise, mine set around 475ish are right on the hemp line. I suppose it's how you set them up?
The new bass profile bell produces a fuller bass (if I'm honest I don't have the skill/the ear to be able to compare) but there is a definate bass presence producing lovely harmonics on B especially.

I have no problem tuning the pipes, bass included. These are by far and away the easiest to tune and steadiest pipes I have ever played. I have other sets now too, but I always go to these.

Running Xtreme bass and Selbie tenors at the minute.

If I knew how to post pictures I would!

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QpCMy-X2ryuycAX1HjIaHVnTUOBJO0GW/view?usp=sharing

Pretty. These are silver with cocobolo?

[Mac an t-Sealgair]

Pretty. These are silver with cocobolo?

Yeah, that's correct. Victorian scroll engraving and cocobolo projecting mounts

[Chris Knife]

My set of “vintage” DN5 pipes arrived in June… I loved the experience of working with the team there (Martin/David). It’s interesting, I had a traditional set of Ezeedrone reeds… and together with my instructor who also plays Nails, It’s been a bit of a challenge to have the tenors tune 5mm up on the hemp.

my Nail ABW chanter with a McPhee reed tunes 474-8 depending on the day… Using the traditional Ezeedrone tenors… I’ve had to remove the rubber interface and re-hemp to have the reed body directly up against the drone seat (no space), And the tuning pins are screwed right into the body… In my situation I feel the drones are definitely turning flat.

im waiting on Chris for a replacement bass drone reed (Xtreme) as the traditional Ezeedrone base was a bit lacking.

interested to hear if my observations are common.

Leo

Leo, I've always removed the rubber sleeve and hemped the EzeeDrone reeds so they were securely seated and I had a tail of hemp on them....seasoning and drone reeds, yuck. I've not had to screw the tuning screws all the way in though. That said, I play a gentle chanter reed and have no qualms about moving the bridles to get optimum air efficiency and sharpening the tone of the reed on the drones. I prefer 478, give or take, and always tune above the hemp line on the tenors.

That's my experience. But if your pipe is performing the way you want (efficiency, tone, comfort, etc.), does it matter if the tenors tune above or below the hemp line?

Chris

[LeoCDN]

Chris all good. I’ve always understood that you want more vs. less “tuning chamber” (I hold Stuart Liddell as a benchmark)… hence the idea of “being on the hemp”. I’m still working on the best mix of air efficiency and I may bring it down to the bottom of the hemp/silver interface… As I’m not sure,and this is just purely speculation that the EZeedrone read body should be at an endpoint with the screws tightened all the way in. I responded just to provide a point of data for the discussion. .

I’ve got another challenge at the moment my Bannatyne hybrid bag failed last week so this week coming I’m hoping to switch to a WMC bag.

Playing a set of bagpipes is never boring!

[John Miner]

My set of “vintage” DN5 pipes arrived in June… I loved the experience of working with the team there (Martin/David). It’s interesting, I had a traditional set of Ezeedrone reeds… and together with my instructor who also plays Nails, It’s been a bit of a challenge to have the tenors tune 5mm up on the hemp.

my Nail ABW chanter with a McPhee reed tunes 474-8 depending on the day… Using the traditional Ezeedrone tenors… I’ve had to remove the rubber interface and re-hemp to have the reed body directly up against the drone seat (no space), And the tuning pins are screwed right into the body… In my situation I feel the drones are definitely turning flat.

im waiting on Chris for a replacement bass drone reed (Xtreme) as the traditional Ezeedrone base was a bit lacking.

interested to hear if my observations are common.

Leo

Interesting. I play at about 478 to 480 depending on the temp and I have my tenors hemped up above the seat and the screw pretty far out as you can see here. I'm tuning well above the hemp. The other main factor is how open the reed is. I play between 28" and 30" inches of water and I spend a good deal of time calibrating them to be as closed off as possible for the strength of my chanter. This makes the reed very sharp and makes tuning up very easy as a result. I'm not sure what strength you are playing, but that's just one more thing to consider.
John

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[LeoCDN]

Thanks John… appreciate your POV, and for sharing the photos (love the silver work ). I’m replacing my bag this week but will look to share similar photos. I suspect my reads are too open… I’ll be looking to adjust my balance and report back… we can compare notes

Edit: 9/27… Hi John… I installed a new pipe bag over the weekend and balance my drones… So I thought I would include a picture of my tenor drones… 473, screws turned in all the way… 8mm of hemp. I think I’m there. .

[Søren E. Larsen]

Naill did tweak the bass profile to give a 'bigger bolder sound'. Not sure when though. A few years ago.

They made the bass bell deeper. Naill will do it on sets which are made before the change.